In recent weeks I have begun to notice a vast difference in what people have to say about Scripture, and what Scripture actually says to people. While it is understandable, from a Biblical perspective that the unsaved can not truly understand The Word of God, I find myself agonizing over the various assumptions of professing Christians. Bear in mind I am a fairly new believer, that God has not overburdened me with intelligence, and I sometimes find it hard to imagine why He would bother to save a soul as unworthy as my own, at the expense of His Sons` life.
It may well be that like a child in love for the first time, I am simply too inexpierienced in The Word to see the problems with it that so many of my brothers and sisters seem to find.
Charismatics seem to need to add something to Salvation in Jesus Christ, to validate it. Health and wealth proponents appear to see Gods` Word as a prospectus for long painless life on earth and increased income for its` own sake. And so many leaders of so many churches seem to feel the Scriptures need to be muted or rounded off on the edges, as to better fit into the man shaped hole culture creates for them.
I read my Bible most every evening, and pray every morning. I make two Bible studies a week and attend two services, taking notes on the points of the sermons. Because of this humble attempt at immersion in The Word, I feel I have at least a basic understanding of what God has given to us in His Book.
Quite possibly, I am just plain naive. Or I`m just to simple in my approach to the Bible. I feel what I find in The Word satisfies my soul without the need to segment, add or subtract anything. Maybe one day years from now I will find the need to curb my thoughts and opinions on the Bible God has given us, as not to offend or consternate those around me. Or to enrage those who do not want to believe in absolutes. Yet I can`t help thinking that if this ever becomes the case, I will be able to remember the simple comfort I find in The Scriptures today, and sufficiency in which they fulfill every need of my soul.
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mkz, I think in some of our recent debates, I've noticed that some folks can make Scripture fit their agenda in a certain context and not neccesarily be wrong. However, as I've stated in the past, words mean things. But the Bible can be interpreted in many ways. Context, idiom, language, customs, culture, historicity, all play into the final outcome. I've heard impressive arguments from various camps staked out in different theological areas. The voluminous amounts of information constitute a brain overload. I envy your simple belief approach. That is a gift from God and you should cherish it. I on the other hand many Thomas-like attributes.
I, like sojourner, have been a believer for many years. I find that the Living Word takes on new meaning each time I read it because my experiences, guided by the Holy Spirit, tint the glasses I wear each time I pick it up. Therefore, I pick it up frequently and find myself going over and over the text, gleaning new meaning each time. But it is the meaning that God has given to me --not to you or to davidj or to sojourner. I truly believe that the key to understanding scripture is to simply allow the Holy Spirit to reveal it. I approach it each day as a new Word and try to open my mind to what He would have me understand. For example, using the scripture that sojourner quoted, there are days when I really focus on "the words of my mouth" and others where "the meditations of my heart" come to the forefront. Each time reminds me in a different way of God's mercy and grace for the lowliest of sinners -- ME! I find, though, that I would probably not be very good at teaching the Word to anyone else, since I may not find the same meaning today that I found yesterday and if I can't agree with myself, how could I teach it? I try to approach His Word as something special and awe-inspiring each day. I take it at its face and try not to put more into it than what is there. It is the sweet, child-like innocence that you bring to your reading each day that I pray God will give me before I open my Bible each morning. Never lose that innocence and always trust Him to give you the meaning and you will always find sufficiency in His Word!
I thank you folks for the input on my thoughts, I value the insights you have shared with me. These comfort me in that I feel more assured that I am getting the right idea about my understanding of Gods` Word.
David, I especially want to thank you for the reference to Thomas. This has helped me to better understand the recent change in your blog posts. I feel better now realizing the exploratory nature of your quest, as where before this revelation, I felt you mignt be falling into resignation due to the pressures of the world.
Maybe an explanation is due. I have never been a cookie cutter Christian conservative. I get real wierd around folks who seem to conform to one another instead of conforming to Jesus. Brother Ian has really opened me up to how liberals think and many of their quests are admirable. The social conscience of much of the church has been asleep at the wheel for generations. We fight and argue amongst ourselves about Bible translations, the reformation, certain sacraments, rituals, denominations, preaching styles, worship styles..and while we're doing this people are ignoring us because it's like this in-house family feud.
Recently, I've started questioning the questions and have really gotten into other perspectives. I have broken up my radio time between Bill O'Reilly and NPR. I want it all. I don't want my faith to be imprisoned by idealogy. And I want to be a witness in a way that is not confrontational or stereotypical. I love conservatives, now I have to learn to love liberals as well.
OK, David. I guess I see myself as a Christian, period. I am a conservative only in the essence that my biblical values coincide with what `Concervatives` allegedly stand for. For the most part anyway. I disagree with most conservative views concerning the enviornment,for instance. God gave us dominion over the earth, He did not give us permission to pollute, violate or slaughter His creation. We were given a writ of stewardship, not a licence to destroy.
As for Scripture, it seems as I stated, fairly simple. Gods` Word tells us how we are to worship, how we are to live, and gives us a commission to witness His glory to the lost, testing all we say, and all we do, by The Word. Personal interpretation of God`s Word can only go so far before it becomes something else entirely, the more plainly it is read, the more clear it becomes. The problem people in the Church seem to have with this, is that what the Bible says in plain language, is not what they want to hear.
Oh, what a true statement! I cannot tell you how many times I have heard people say that they think "all that church stuff" is "old fashioned" times have changed so that this "stuff" doesn't apply any more. Yes, our culture has changed, but people are still people with the same vices and lusts that they have had since the fall. Rather than hear the plain words of the Bible, they walk away. I am saddened by the hoards of people that walk straight toward damnation rather than be made uncomfortable. And I would pray for God's mercy, except that He already displayed greater mercy than we deserve in sending His only Son.
Priscilla, the more I read The Word, attend Church and Bible studies, the more distressed I become at the falling away from sound docterine I percieve. I pray for the faithful that seem to stray from The Word. Not that I do not sin, my heart is convicted by the Holy Spirit many times a day. So I seek forgiveness from Christ, and go back to The Word for guidence.
I hope that if I stray from The Word of God to follow false doctrine or to walk a path of daily sin, that a caring brother or sister in The Lord will see and call me to corection with compassion and the rod of scripture.
Thank you, Brother, for reminding me to never give up on somebody just because they walk away. I guess I just get tired of the fight sometimes. That's when I guess I need God to do the work and to shore up and strengthen me.
Mkz, I hope you don't take what I'm about to say wrongly, but it sounds from your posts that you're pretty settled in your belief system. And yes, the Word is settled also. But here's my take;
I would say the Book is sufficient as far as written instructions-but human actions and behavior are far more important than just words on a page. I love, revere and even cherish God's Word. But I've seen so many who take the commands literally, judge others so freely and make claims about the Bible that the Bible doesn't even make.
Plus, I am still open to various interpretation methods as well as theories on the actual dictation of the Bible versus other possibilities. I have never been settled in my beliefs in some areas. On the non-negotiables I'm pretty set. What is sound docrtine though? According to God? Or man's best guess?
Again, it is wonderful that you have a solid faith and are secure in your view of the Bible. I continue to seek and search for all Truth in and out of the Scriptures. There have to be things in the Bible that are paramount for all believers. But there are also things that for me, are not settled. I hope that doesn't make me a black sheep of my Christian family. I certainly love God enough to questions the ways of man, as far as his interpretation and application of the Word.
mkz, david: Jesus said, "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven." A child doesn't over-analyze but takes things at face value. A child-like wonder and innocent approach to reading scripture has always produced the sweetest blessings for me. And maybe I over-simplify God's word, but I come away from my readings with new understanding each day. I don't think that's a bad thing, right?
I believe sound docterine is exactly as God describes it, plainly and simply. Jesus testified to the Truth of Scripture in very literal terms, stating that it is not to be added to or taken away from. I feel that the Word of God should govern the lives of people, and that human actions or behavior are never a reason to set aside what the Bible says as truth, no matter how noble or just we feel we are being.
No one should twist the Word to say something it does not. Some do this intentionaly to make money, defend their prejudices, or justify their hatred of others. I`m sure I have done it taking verses out of context, and pray that a more knowledgable brother or sister, or The Holy Spirit correct me if I do, that I may learn to handle The Word more exactly.
I don`t think feeling unsure about some of Scripture makes you a black sheep. It does make you human, and so are we all. I think I will pray that God settles your heart in your concerns, and that I am not missing parts of His intent due to the simplicity of my aproach to His Word!
"If feeling unsure about some parts of Scripture makes you a black sheep, you have a lot of company, mkz. Nobody here on earth can be 100% certain of the meaning of every single passage. It's normal to doubt sometimes and it is healthy to search for answers"
I think this makes my point better than I could. I do not feel Scripture is sufficient because there are so many authors, so many different interpretations and so much speculation as to what one word means in the greek. Because of this I have to trust the Spirit and that he is with me, and guiding me along the path of Truth.
I think we have found the primary difference in our understanding of Gods Word, David. By your statement you believe man wrote the Scriptures. I believe, and from the Bible understand, that God wrote His Word by the hands of men guided by The Holy Spirit. For me God is the single author, for you a multitude of men are the authors. If I have understood you, this greatly helps me in understanding your uncertainty of Scripture, and your dissatisfaction with some church theology. I will most certainly pray for you brother, that God will guide you to His Truth.
MKZ "God is the single author, for you a multitude of men are the authors. If I have understood you, this greatly helps me in understanding your uncertainty of Scripture, and your dissatisfaction with some church theology. I will most certainly pray for you brother, that God will guide you to His Truth"
mkz, I guess I understand the concept as God the Author, and I probably should take that at face value. But why did these 66 (some agrue 73) books make it into the canon? Men decided which ones should be Scripture, so we have to be confident that they were guided by the Spirit as well. There is much uncertainty in this process and much to be gleaned from scholars who examine the culture, context and clarity of these Writings.
To say God authored each word takes more faith than obeying the words themselves. And since we don't even have the original manuscripts we have to also have faith in the scribes. So for me to have doubts on the origins and the exactness of the doctrines of the Bible is nothing more than a mental longing for Truth.
The Bible was used in the 1800's to validate slave holders' claim on that terrible evil. It was used in the crusades and the witch trials to justify incredible violence. That's why I think Scripture must be interpreted and tempered by the Holy Spirit. The KKK was founded as a religious group dedicated to God-and based on Biblical principles.
My scepticism is due to the way men have handled the Word. And if I question origins and ideas, it's only because men have used this Book to do much evil instead of the Good that mostly occupies it's pages.
I understand the emotion behind your point. For myself, I cannot question the sovereignty or origin of Gods` Word based on the will or actions of men centuries later, twisting them to legitimize their own foul purposes.
I do not feel the historical fact of the damnable offenses you brought up, in any way bring into doubt the divine establishment of the Bible by God, through the hands of the men who served Him.
Should I begin to question the validity of Scripture, then I would have to question the Truth of Jesus Christ.
My salvation is in The Lord Jesus. The indwelling of The Holy Spirit upon my heart in that rebirth is what allows me to read Gods` Word and know it to be The Truth.
The fruits of the Spirit in my life since salvation are proof of what the Bible teaches. Just as were the 37 years of horrific sin, debauchery, lies and pain that was my life before God knelt me before The Cross.
I've finally begun my blogging on this topic. My post here is the first of a few I intend to write.
I decided to start with a personal perspective before moving on to a more intellectual response...but that is coming as well.
I don't mean to hijack the conversation over to my blog, I simply had more to say than I thought would fit in these comments.
No Problem Ian, I had already checked out your new post before finding your note here. I look forward to gaining a better understanding of your perspective on scripture.
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